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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:50 am
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I'm also considering a paved road running from the gate to the Good table edge with a crossroads and a vestigial military road running behind the wall at least part of the way using up the tons of foam scraps I have lying around...

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 10:07 am
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I will shortly have about 3 feet of paved road in 8" sections stretching either side of the main causeway road, with a paved road extending back to the Gondorian table edge. It has proved a very useful way of making a dent in the vast quantity of small styroam scraps I have left over from other modelling projects.

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:19 am
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Starting to roll off the production line, 9x 8", 1x 4" and 1 crossroads base of military paved road to run partially behind the Rammas Echor

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And the last sections of wall still WIP but getting there - 2 conventional, 1 breached and 4 with removable breach portions

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:36 am
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The first dress rehearsal of all the components of the wall circuit together on the only free piece of office floor long enough - still WIP but you get the idea...
A view of the whole 4 yards!

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A lower angle view

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View towards L end of wall from centre front of table

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View towards R end of wall from centre of table

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View of main gate and causeway approach

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Wozza



Joined: 05 Nov 2008
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Location: London

PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:15 pm
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Mate, that looks awesome! Great work, as usual. Wink

Must have a think about how many troops will be needed to fill up that frontage

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Wozza



Joined: 05 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:29 pm
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Just noticed the removable breach sections in the walls - excellent!

For ease of play I suppose we should treat the bastions as too strong to be destroyed within the time-frame of the game? Or are those sections the same size as the wall sections, in which case they would be substituted as required.

Must do some work on seige rules - I know there is quite a lot we want to be covered, but it has to be a fairly simple system or else it will all bog down into too much time-consuming detail.

Need rules for:
attacking troops on walls (ladders)
attacking troops on walls (Murmaks)
attacking troops on walls (flyers)
defending walls
Creating breaches (War Machines/Magic)
Creating Breaches (Orc suicide squads)
Creating Breaches (Murmaks)
Attacking the gate of the main bastion
Fighting in/through main bastion
attacking breaches
defending breaches


Anything else occour to you guys?

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:49 am
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Wozza,
All the breached sections available will be 'in play' so there are no extra breaches in reserve to substitute for intact walls during the game unless I make more new ones.
I would say the bastions/towers would be too well made to be destroyed during the game.

We will need points costs for the drawbridge, portcullis and main gates which could be 'destroyed' during the game, though the archway has been specifically designed to be too small for Mumakil, but large enough for cavalry and trolls.

I'd have thought the main emphasis of the enemy would be on punching a hole through the defensive curtain and overwhelming the defenders with a focus on taking control of the breaches and main gatehouse. It would be only through the gates that siege engines etc. and war materiel could be hauled.

My initial thoughts were to treat the breaches as difficult going, but not wholly impassable to the Mumaks. I think once you add in difficult going, uphill etc etc it is going to be difficult enough to traverse them.

Wall capacity
4x 8" wall sections @ 16 bases each
5x 5" wall sections @ 10 bases each
1x 5" breach (4 base capacity on surviving wallwalk) 6 base breach
5x 8" breach (8 base capacity on surviving wallwalk) 8 base breaches
Bastion 6" wallwalk @ 12 bases, bastion @ 6 bases
Bastion 6" wallwalk @ 12 bases, bastion @ 6 bases
Plus 4 figs each capacity on wallwalk spurs adjoining Mural tower and Artillery tower
Mural tower - 6 visible bases , 9 bases internal
Artillery tower - 17 visible bases, 17 internal
4 bases each on wallwalks immediately flanking gatehouse
Gatehouse towers - 7 visible bases on each side, 3 internal levels @ 7 bases each
Central gatehouse - 12 visible bases

Thane's original siege rules use the number of occupied bases on walls as a measure for resolving combat. On a 16 base wall if the defenders lose two men then the attackers get to occupy their vacant spots if they win the melee.
Perhaps we could devise a mechanism along the same lines by which the defenders have to maintain (at a minimum) the same number of bases of figures immediately behind the breach as the size of breach with which to fight off attackers. If this number drops when the attackers win a round of melee then the attackers gain ground behind the breach accordingly...

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:03 pm
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If my maths serves me correctly I make that a total of 265 bases of figures to completely cram all walls 2 deep and occupy all visible space on tops of towers, plus a further 68 bases worth of 'hidden' troops to occupy the insides of structures, and not including 4 bases immediately behind the main gates not already accounted for Very Happy

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bluntfang



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:16 pm
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I think EPIC is an appropriate response here.

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:41 am
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A couple of pics of the available marsh terrain sections which can be used in front of the defences. They were made many years ago primarily for 15mm figures from some old doormat, and could be given a quick spruce up to serve should you guys agree...

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As to a Garrison to man the walls I have 8 units of between 15 and 20 proxy Gondorians apiece to potentially man 8 out of the 20 sections of the Rammas (6 tower sections (gatehouse counts as 2) and 14 wall sections. That's only 40% of the troops with no reserves...

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Rocket-Toad
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Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:49 am
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We are going to need a lot of bad guys to attack that wall section.
We need enough to cover 25% of the 12 x 6 feet board, I think we can manage that Cool

I look forward to receiving the templates from you shortly Sukhe.

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The Creature Creation Formula is the thing I dont like most about the system. I have never seen anyone think I need another unit of chaff on the table, lets point them up, the CCF tends to create all kind of supermonsters.
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greendestiny



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:55 am
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good H man every time I look at this thread I start to drool!
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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 9:01 am
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A progress report
Most of build is now complete. Here's some pics of the breached wall sections...
The 2 permanent breaches

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The removable wall sections before

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And after with debris fields added

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All 6 breached sections together - they will be spread so that there will be 2 breaches in the walls either side of the main gate and 1 breach on both the walls either side further out

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The causeway approach with way markers

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The causeway at drawbridge footings end

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Wozza



Joined: 05 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:51 pm
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Excellent stuff Sukhe, great quality work and attention to detail as always - those wall breach sections are outstanding!

Agree your comments regarding the bastions, and the breaches being difficult going - makes sense, though we do need to make sure we don't overcomplicate things and slow the game down. For that same reason i think we need to be careful with how much marsh terrain is in front of the walls - certainly there should be some, but not so much that it gets in the way unduly. That said, your marsh sections are excellent, and should certainly be used, even if some of it is not directly in front of the walls.

256 figures for the defenders is no problem. I can raise about 200 high Elves (infantry) plus 6 bolt throwers myself, and have plenty of well painted dwarves and halflings to fill in the gaps. With the gondorians we will have plenty to cover the wall and still have reserve regiments to contest any breaches.

Nick, are the Battleforge giants avaliable again? Adding them to the mix will give the evil forces a great advantage in big monsters along with the Murmaks, which will hopefully be somewhat balanced by the defenders war-machines.

oh, its going to be a great battle!

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:52 am
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Wozza,
I agree - just enough marsh to suggest the reason for the causeway without unduling impeding progress along the whole frontage.
If my siege train swaps allegience I can muster 4 ballistae and (hopefully)
2 trebs on the side of Light and still have 4 ballistae and a warmachine supporting the Orcs.

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