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Obscader



Joined: 04 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:35 pm
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Rocket-Toad wrote:

I agree.
Magic is vile and rotten and is generally the last bastion of cowards and weasels.
Show them cold steel I say... ... mutter...


And what, pray tell, is the problem with rotten cowardice and vile weasel-like survivalism?

Noble virtues both!

Drogar-Vilain(LBG)

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Theoden, King of the Mark



Joined: 08 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:51 pm
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[quote="the flayed one
re. the magic issue, the way the magic phase is means that if you left it til last it wouldn't be much use. the spells are all about affecting what happens next, be it missile melee or morale.[/quote]

That is why I would prefer it to go at the end of the actions, just before the morale phase. I don't object to magic completely in a fantasy setting, otherwise, I'd be playing systems that were historical only. I like the fantasy setting, but hate "high magic" where it often becomes the deciding factor of a game. I would rather the focus be on maneuver and tactics, and let magic influence the outcome more than decide the outcome. High magic is something for RPG's, where the whole idea is that one or a select few individuals determine the fates of the masses/world/universe. Let the generals win on skills and the luck of the dice for mass combat gaming.

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Rocket-Toad
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Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 10:41 pm
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Magic should be a bit part player in larger scale battles.
Buffing units, creating small tarpits etc.

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The Creature Creation Formula is the thing I dont like most about the system. I have never seen anyone think I need another unit of chaff on the table, lets point them up, the CCF tends to create all kind of supermonsters.
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Theoden, King of the Mark



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:05 am
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Exactly! Magic should be a sideshow, nothing more.

Also, in response to the archery question. I don't mind archers, and agree with them being expensive but a true force to be reckoned with. Historically, the societies who mastered the use of range weapons were far more successful. The Huns and Mongols are examples of how a highly mobile force of skilled archers could trump hordes of melee troops, mounted or not, and infantry. Of course, there is no historical comparison to magic, I'm just saying I prefer troops of the line to be the focus in a mass combat game.

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Obscader



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:52 pm
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I think magic is certainly tactical.

It gives a direct choice of strategy - when to cast, what to cast.

Which combat unit to boost, which enemy to Zzap with lightning.

It condenses power into one model (as you'd expect 250+ points of costing to do!), yet Mages are quite vulnerable at the same time.

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Theoden, King of the Mark



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:26 pm
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Well, I find it funny how many people complain about how powerful characters upset the balance of other games (GW one of the worst offenders) but no one wants to tone down the wizards. In AoA, it is the wizards who are the characters who have the greatest chance to affect the game, and I don't consider their use tactical.

Troop deployments, manuevers and formation alterations, etc are tactical. A wizard is a hand grenade brought to a stick fight...ie the determining factor often enough that magic should be placed just before the morale phase if someone really wants a game to reflect tactics.

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Obscader



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:57 pm
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Yet Theoden King, Magic is the biggest source of the supernatural in AOA.

The spell effects don't fit in to the convention formula and thats why its magic. Magic spices the game up, even if its balance is more arbitrarily costed than AOA's other mechanics.

Characters in AOA are extremely powerful in my view. The number of times my Master Assassin has stopped an entire unit from fleeing for his 2 extra morale points (which is equivalent to an extra 12 rank and file warriors in practical terms!) has put the morale boosting abilities of heroes as high as Magical power in my eyes. Having said this, a characters death could cause the entire unit to flee.

Why don't we make a concerted effort to play Magic-wielding, even Magic heavy armies versus a conventional army with few supernatural elements in them, and let the empirical evidence do the talking.

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Theoden, King of the Mark



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:57 pm
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I'm not objecting to magic in general terms. As stated in my previous posts on this subject, I think it is given too much importance in the game. It is my personal preference that magic take a small role in any game where it has a presence.

AoA rules are written as they are, and I doubt they will be changed to accomodate my personal preferences alone. So far, it is the most balanced system I have played regarding the subject, though I am no connoisseur of gaming systems.

Unfortunately, I can't take you up on the offer to play personally, because the cost of airline tickets alone would make it too expensive. Any playtesting will have to be done independently.

Characters are powerful compared to standard troops in AoA, but don't reach the level of power displayed in other games, like the LOTR skirmish game by GW. Fielding Boromir, Captain of the White Tower in that game is essentially like issuing a lawn mower to an army against its opponents. He has high fight values, wounds and feats that allow him to alter the dice rolls and save against wounds in addition to his armor and, if he ever fights outnumbered, he can cause his opponents to take a morale test before combat and if they fail he simply rolls to wound against up to three of them each turn.

I like how AoA handles characters in general terms. I just would prefer magic go last, just before the Morale phase. But I like the game.

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Tanker



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:58 pm
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I am generally not a fan of "big magic" in a game. However, the one time I had magicked a sizable unit of orc beast riders into flyers made me a happy man. I was laughing like a hyena. It took me three games worth of attempts to do it, but it was glorious to behold. To paraphrase from Dumbo...ever seen an orc fly?

Magic can also be an equalizer against someone exploting the screening rules with a unit of fearless, multi-wound, fixed armor tree spirits screening two units of elf archers or the like. What I am saying is that I think it should compliment a good battle plan, not be the battle plan.

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