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Elvenblade
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Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:35 pm
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Ok, AoA is a niche game. Attempts at world domination have failed.

Where do people want to see this forum going in the future?

I have met a great group of people on here that it would be good to remain in contact with, but it appears many either no longer or infrequently play AoA. Certainly forum traffic here and at Rajs is not what it once was.

We can leave things as they are and use this place as a reference point but still focused on AoA or we can diversify the forum a little and make it a general gaming forum with an AoA section as well as sections for other games as people require.

Let me know your views chaps.

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Loki
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:30 pm
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I would support opening this place up to other games. I would certainly be on here more often to talk on different games i.e Uncharted Seas. I feel that Arcana is dead in the water now, and whilst I certainly want to play the game again with the friends i've made here, i think the group and community would be refreshed with being able to talk about other topics. As said above arcana will not be moving on. It's a good game and the dynamics/rules can cope with staying as they are and still allow for an entertaining game but as the tournament, if you can call it that, in Derby recently showed there is in my opinion no evident drive behind the game or interest in it anymore. I did love reading the quality over quantity remark that one of the 'competitors' used after the poor turnout though. That was good for a laugh, given none of the best players were there.

I say we move on. Anyone for a game of uncharted seas.

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:00 am
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I was a little disappointed to see that Terrain Warehouse did not have copies for sale on their stand at SELWG. A casual observer might think that a lacklustre effort but to be fair AoA is just one of the lines TW carried. I was engaged in a conversation about the game when I bought some AoA bases, though it was by no means evangelical (Mind you I would have run a mile I think) I was grateful that it wasn't delivered with the ardent enthusiasm of the Evil Empire acolytes (that creeps me out a bit), and was gratified to spot AoA for sale on one or two other stands.

In the Historical rule set arena, TooFatLardies had organised a Napoleonic game to demonstrate their rule sets, there was an 18th century game using the King of the Battlefield rule set and organised by the author. I was also impressed by the Alde Garde, who just like doing shows to demo their favourite period.
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Seems to me the only way to keep 'AoA' out there is to keep showing that it is indeed a going concern and continues to have a following...
The way forward I think is to demo Non-Evil Empire figures in new and unusual ways - something eyecatching that can't be dismissed as just another Warhammer game.

If we could tempt the historical WAB fraternity to change allegience that would be a start. I know many love the fantasy figures out there but have been put off by the 'silliness' of certain fantasy rulesets. If they could see that they could 'dabble' in a well thought out Fantasy system without too much trouble by demonstrating the playability of AoA and the opportunities for tactical play I have not personally experienced but heard discussed about on this forum that would do the trick I imagine.

There seems to be a general trend towards a merging of Fantasy/Historicals atm, what with Wierd WWII, Victorian Science Fiction, Pulp and Back of Beyond genres...

If we could also interest other fantasy figure producers out there, who are also trying to stress the differences between their products and Evil Empire then maybe it can thrive... perhaps the old saying 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' is putting it too strongly but you get my drift.

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Obscader



Joined: 04 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:37 pm
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Hold the line I say!

I personally had immense and unrealistic expectations for this game. World Domination was aiming far too high for what was always quite a niche game.

We haven't actually lost anything other than unrealistic expectations.

I feel the bubble of enthusiasm hasn't burst, but rather burnt out.

When I gather enough wax to make another candle (and more pretentious metaphors to go with it) then I shall burn again!

I got a few campaign ideas that I'm currently developing, when the time is right we should emerge again.

Finally, however good Uncharted seas and such are, we have no measure of control over those games. The chance to change a games destiny is something I held and still hold quite highly.

My vote for changing the entire forum into a general gaming forum is a nay Razz .

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Elvenblade
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 4:43 pm
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To honest Obs I don't see this forum having any control over the destiny of AoA either. TW do not appear to be pushing the game forward(one copy on display at one of the largest wargamiing shows in the UK and no demo game). That is their choice and I respect that.

It there is sufficient interest in games like uncharted seas etc then I have no problem with adding a sub forum. The question is whether we keep AoA as the headline act here.

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Sven
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:18 pm
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I do not post very often but I have to say I feel AoA is dead in the water at the moment.

I think it was a massive missed chance at something very good, TW should have been showcasing this at every possible chance and every show possible at the beginning there were some very enthusiastic gamers who were more than willing to give up their time and money to show the game off attend shows and generally push the game forward. TW should have bitten their hand off and had a demo or better still participation games at every show possible. I know these things cost money to attend but you have to speculate to increase the gamers and then generate some revenue.

TW should have had taken Sukhe_Bator up on his kind offer and had that great looking castle on a table I would have looked fantastic and certainly had a lot of people looking at and asking about the game.

It comes to something when at SELWG TW had 1 copy of the rules on their stand and another trader with nothing to do with the game had 3. TW only have to look at someone like Westwind who had a trade stand and were running a demo game as well. I never saw thier stand empty at any point during the day with all their staff pushing thier products and the games. It was a pity I can't say the same about TW

If they had taken it seriously with the talented people we have on the forum they could have developed minature ranges of armies that are just not available anywhere but all TW have done is alienate themselves.

That said from the couple of tournaments I have gone to I have met a great bunch of gamers and it would be nice to see opinions / threads on other games you are playing maybe even having tournaments of other games like uncharted or starmada, 5150 ect

You only really have to look on this forum for an answer the most active thread has been for Space Hulk not a game that really interests me but I have enjoyed reading the thread.

My vote would be to open this up to other games and see where it goes from there.

Cheers
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Warhound
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:14 pm
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I'm open to other games. I appreciate that there was a lot of disillusionment surrounding AoA after it was bought out and I think it was the big let down after the optemistic promise that gutted most people.

I still think AoA has great balance and potential and it would be my first rule set of choice for a fantasy/historical battle. That said, I have since moved on to pastures new and am just trying to enjoy gaming in any capacity.

My gaming buddies and i are looking at Uncharted Seas in a big way as well as Full Thrust and a bit of Gothic. We've kicked off a blood bowl league and play 40K on occasion and I don't take any of the above seriously. I do enjoy it though - especially Uncharted Seas which is so well supported by Spartan Games.

As for AoA - I will play it on occasion whenever i feel like getting my models out or someone wants to give it a go.

The nail in the coffin for me was trying to get a team together for the Derby tournament. I was quite enthusiastic about an away trip but when I requested the use of Greek pikemen as spearmen so I could showcase my fantasy greek army I got the door slammed in my face saying it was not "playtested". However, they were allowing CCF creations, none of which would have been playtested anyway. With that sort of attitude I just pulled it so they did not have a Southern Team travelling up and instead managed 4 players amongst themselves.....

It was a disappointing end as I just wanted to show off some nice models and move them around the table and perhaps mend some bridges.
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Zinkala



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:42 pm
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Itís hard to know where AoA will go in the future. Iím one of the people thatís disillusioned by how things have went for the last year and a half. Iím not sure if AoA is any deader than it was before the rewrite and new book. We lost a handful of the most vocal proponents due to disagreements with TW but there are still some healthy gaming groups scattered around the world that arenít on any forums. AoA was never a mainstream game and that hasnít changed. I think we all had stars in our eyes at the thought of what we could do with the rules but now we just need to settle in and do what we can. The biggest loss IMO is that the infighting helped drive away Thane even faster than heíd planned. I know Iím missing him.

I canít say whatís going on in the UK but I know I burned out on trying to promote AoA in western Canada. I traveled to a handful of conventions and ran demo games in 4 different cities the nearest of which is 260 km from home. Itís not the easiest thing in the world to set up to do conventions, especially when you have limited manpower. I got a few people playing AoA but for me it ended up not being worth the time and expense. Family and work obligations have to take priority and I know Iíve dropped the ball bad as far as promotions in North America. I donít have thousands of dollars to spare to run the types of deals and programs Iíd like to so Iíve had to settle with selling a few books out of my basement for the people that were able to learn about me through the forums. Iím going to produce some minis eventually but itís taken backseat to my real life.

I love AoA and for me it is my first choice of games to play. Even if there was never any more support or new books put out Iíll keep playing. I still play other games that have been dead for years but I enjoy. I have everything I need for AoA. Iím fully capable of adapting things for my use and donít need to worry about anybody imposing their standards on me. As it is I will keep on working on my pet projects and trying to help people with theirs. Maybe Obscader canít have any ďofficialĒ influence on the rules but sometimes fan made material is as good or better than whatís official. If the ideas are good they may still have a chance of becoming official. Itís a shame to let a personís dislike of a couple of individuals and their decisions totally spoil a fun hobby. Maybe itís easier for me to say that as Iím so far away from the people involved in disagreements.

Itís your forum and Iíve already stuck my nose into enough things over there that I shouldnít have so I donít even have an opinion on whether or not it should be AoA specific or not. Iím interested in lots of games and would still check in as often as I do now to see whatís on peopleís minds. Itíll be like Warseer for me. Itís focus is GW but I spend most my time on the non GW sections as Iím not that interested in their rules anymore although I do still like the minis.

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Rocket-Toad
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Joined: 02 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:01 pm
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As an 'official' entity AoA is dead in the water.

As a gamne system it can still live and breathe among folk who are interested in trying out new rule systems with their old models.

This forum can continue to accomodate new or existing players that want to keep the game alive and make changes.

For better or for worse TW have successfully let AoA slip beneath the waves and they seem to be cool with that.
As a promotional force they are utterly spent.
Their input is neither here nor there in relation to any 'unofficial' or 'house' rules that members of this forum come up with.

What this forum chooses to do with AoA is entirely up to the membership and it can do what ever it wants to do 'unofficially' and have a greater impact than anything happening at TW because this is still where the bulk of the players or other interested parties come to read about AoA.

Definitely open up the forum to other game systems and topics, thats gotta be a good thing all round, and keep flying the AoA flag for any prospective newcomers in the meantime.

It's all good. Cool

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:27 am
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Have any of you guys seen/visited
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There's a forum dedicated to a variety of games and periods - the main 'glue' is everyone's love of the gaming and modelmaking genre. They are a truly creative crowd and if ever there was a source of potentially 'like-minded' people to interest in AoA as a gaming system.

The snag with all special interest sites is that they can tend to be isolating. This site has a wonderful crossover of periods etc. I'm sure they would welcome AoA'ers... I'm not advocating jumping ship, but surely there'd be room for some sort of collaborative effort?

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magokiron



Joined: 15 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:28 pm
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Yeah. I have noticed too that both AoA forums has became slower and slower.

It's a sad thing and a shame.

But TBH, at the "other" forum, the principal (and I believe only) moderator frequently has very bad responses to anyone that isn't pledged to his opinions. In my particular case he has been rude and offensive, so I just quitted posting there.

No surprise most of the rules developers and contributors and gamers ended up in THIS forum.

And the fabled and eternally promised "official" TW forum never lauched.

Now, unfortunately, in my country there are only a very limited number of AoA players, (most of them my friends) and "real life" has made more and more difficult for the group to get together, so when we have a little time, we usually play something faster and easier like blood bowl, space hulk or Song of Blades and Heroes.

I REALLY like the AoA engine, and think it has endless adaptability, so it can be used for lots of periods and settings, and with minor changes, even for skirmish campaings, (see Andrea Sfiligoi's efforts with SBH and all derivative settings) but the lack of push from the owners, headed by TW, just killed the enthusiasm of lots of potential contributors.

So yes, we are a small niche, and maybe a change in direction can stirr things a little.

Best wishes.

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Jonny Shoreboy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:37 pm
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If having sections for other games is what people would like then that is what the people shall have.

We can leave the AoA sections as they are but perhaps open a new section with space for any other games people would like to talk about.

Sound good?

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Obscader



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:33 pm
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I would keep the forum name and logo the same though.

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the flayed one
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:03 pm
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i guess most points regarding a.o.a s position have been made. so i wont go over old ground, most people know my views on the situation .
it's a game i can play, but no longer The game i play

so regarding this forum, i think it would be a shame to lose this place as a 'social' community , lotsa cool people all about the omniverse, and theres lots more games out there, including the obvious g.w. types.
i say yes, lets open it out, and feel fre to talk about other games, post batreps and pictures of groovy miniatures and all that. it wont stop anyone from discussing aoa; rules, games or whatever

personally i have been playing 40k mostly since the campaign ended, and have enjoyed the change, even though i keep getting my butt kicked !
also i have played a little Trafalgar and at London Gamers there is a slow bubbling napoleonic vibe building pace for xmas time ish

re. the Name of the forum,,,, i guess it may be benificial to change it to reflect a more 'open' policy, tho i suspect, coming up with a name could prove a whole kettle of fish in itself. so maybe a straight forward vote to establish first if the majority would prefer to name change or not to name change. then how to decide a new name If thats how it goes...
i see two possible options to solve this,
one. elvenblade simply renames it. no arguments no dramas just do it.
or two. we run a new name thread for a while then have a vote on the top 3 or 5 ideas.
if the majority rather keep the current name of course, then that would become moot.

well, thats my twopennith worth,
hate-tunz

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Shelfunit



Joined: 03 Jun 2008
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Location: Ferney-Voltaire, Swiss/French border.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:39 am
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I'm almost convinced the name "Armies of arcana" seems ok as a forum title - just as the game itself is a generic fantasy game - so the title is (beyond the name of the game itself) a general catch-all for fantasy (and future) wargames.

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