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Should more Horse archer attacks be natural?

 
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Obscader



Joined: 04 Jun 2008
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Location: North London A.K.A Skavenblight

PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:48 pm
Post subject: Should more Horse archer attacks be natural?
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Should more Horse archer attacks be natural?

This would up the points cost by (average) 14ish points per model?

I always imagined Horse archers to be a very move and shooty unit.
They are currently mobile, but not impossible to catch, as they'll be moving 8 or so inches if they intend to shoot. With natural, they'll be all over the shop!

Has anyone used Centaur Longbows? If so I'm jealous, I've always wanted to try them! Razz

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Rocket-Toad
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 2:58 pm
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I have and they were frightfully expensive troops. Shocked

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Sukhe_Bator



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
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Location: 2nd Ger on the Left, back end of beyond

PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:47 am
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Horse archers should all have natural attacks since they trained in coordinated movement and control of the horse and shooting from the age of 6. It should also extend to Marrian/Graccan javelin armed cavalry. This is the historical reality which should be reflected in the rules.

However I would have thought that Centaurs as 1 sentient being, as opposed to a rider controlling a horse, should have certain natural advantages in any event. If this is not reflected in the rules, then they should be tweaked accordingly.

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Elvenblade
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:49 pm
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shooting from a moving horse is and was incredibly difficult and not something your average trooper would be able to do very well. Natural or not this should be reflected in the units skill. As AoA has a very limited skill range the only value they could realisticly have is 1

Even in more modern warefare cavalry would stop and often dismount before firing muskets and even in WW2 most tanks stopped before firing their gun due to accuracy (and not wanting to shred their gearboxes)

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Shaadea



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
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Location: Weiden, Bavaria, Germany

PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:29 am
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Ancient fighters had a far better training. While modern soldiers (even the musket guys) mostly started their training at an age of 15 earliest (the better the weapons got the sloppier the training, nowadays the start their training at an age of 18+) their ancient counterparts did it a lot earlier. As Sukhe pointed out some had their kids train from an age of 6 on.
So compared to modern cavalry the ancient ones will have all kind of great skills making them look like superhumans Smile
(only their weapons will suck)

BUT: there's a very limited range on abilities and values in AoA, and pretty all soldiers are trained more or less at the same level. So you use abilities like natural attacks only on the very elite types.

Just my 2c
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Elvenblade
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:00 am
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there will always be examples that can justify the skill but these should be exceptions. The English were the masters of the longbow back in the day but that was not the norm.

I can't see most armies having such highly skilled horse archers but then everyones view of the fantasy world is different.

Firing a cumbersome bow on a moving platform with insufficent room to aim or even pull the thing correctly makes it very hard. Movies are fun and make it look easy, which is perhaops what a game should portray but then movies make all the fighting look easy Very Happy

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bluntfang



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:55 pm
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The parthian shot was the exception rather than the rule, hence the fact it was singled out. I agree that most armies did not indeed have skilled horse archers, in fact, I cannot think of a single european/greek army that did. None outside of persian, eurasia, perhaps later american indians. Not sure about africa.

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Sukhe_Bator



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:01 am
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The use of javelins and horse archery was an extension of 'normal' hunting practice extended into warfare
only those 'cultures' with a nomadic/steppe basis are likely to have developed horse archery, but I would argue that certainly the Graccans should have excellent options for javelin armed cavalry and Darians both.
It is not too great a leap to extend horse archery skills to Centaurs. In Greek mythology they are often associated with archery and indeed some believe the centaur myths of Greece arose from garbled stories of Scythian horse archers

Take a look at Yabusame (Japanese horse archery). That's done using the asymmetrical japanese yumi bow. Targets are struck at the gallop with relative ease but at close range. Most Asian horse archery was conducted at the gallop with the rider controlling the horse with thigh commands only standing in the stirrups while both hands were used to execute the bow moves. The object was to move in rapidly towards or alongside the opponent and loose the arrow with considerable penetrative power. Today's Yabusame masters are not professional soldiers. I have met some. They are from all walks of life and devote their time and energy to it as part of their devotional practices. I would not suggest they are 'part timers' but they can execute the moves with considerable skill and yet have had far less training than their samurai counterparts of centuries before. Even the English Longbow was used on horseback for hunting and I have seen that done too. Like everything there's a knack and practice makes perfect. Cultures/societies that allow time/opportunities for training will always fare better than those that don't. Hence the disparity between the English Longbowmen, Spartans and other elite fighting groups.

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